host: this is from an interview in 1998 when bill clinton was in the white house and the nominee for the u.s. ambassador of an openly gay individual. chuck hagel said, "there representing america. they're representing our lifestyle, our values, our standards. and i think it is an inhibiting factor to be gay, openly, aggressively day, like mr. hormel, to do an effective job." he is saying those remarks were ill founded. guest: if he gets through the senate, he will be the secretary of defense. he is not in a domestic policy position. i think his record on domestic issues, whether they be guns or abortion or gay rights, there are other things like votes against various positions in the u.s. military having to do with a rights, naacp had very low marks for his civil rights record, all of which raises the question of why the president would want him. again, i get back to this issue that i think the senate committee has to pay attention to, which is, given the record, and given the fact the president was not interested in backing susan rice, why is he so dead set on having secretary hagel